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A new three-part podcast examines the short, troubled tenure of former Harvard University President Claudine Gay and how those fighting culture wars are targeting higher education.

The Boston Globe and WNYC’s “On The Media” podcast collaborated on “,” the first episode of which premiered on Friday, Dec. 6. It explored the celebration of Gay taking the helm at Harvard and the public outrage directed at Gay and the presidents of Massachusetts Institute of Technology and the University of Pennsylvania due to their responses after the Oct. 7 attacks on Israel.

�������� President Danielle R. Holley was interviewed for the podcast. She began her presidential tenure on the same day as Gay. Both are Harvard alums, and President Holley and Gay are also the first Black women to lead their respective institutions. 

President Holley discussed the intense scrutiny for Black women breaking new ground in leadership positions. “The jury is always out,” she said. “There’s a sense that even though you hold that position, it’s really not yours. You are temporarily holding the reins, but you’re still an outsider.” 

She watched the with testimony from then-President Gay and the new presidents of MIT and the University of Pennsylvania with alarm.

“[The three presidents] were being accused of basically creating an atmosphere of hatred inside of universities that they had not led,” President Holley said. 

She also said that the beginning of a new president’s tenure is a fragile time as the community gets to know its new leader and while trust in a new president’s ability to handle a crisis has not yet been established.

“We are going to manage this crisis in a certain way,” Holley said. “When we come out on the other side of the crisis, I will come visit you and come talk to you, not about what happened this week, not what happened this month, but what happened over the course of the year. But that’s easier to say when you’re an experienced president.” 

The podcast is available on , , and via .